I agree too Jay

Kelly we did have some vibrant business here in Malden for the times. The Kernwood Resturaunt,Gold Coin,exclusive Dress Shops like Gordons,and many others. There were so many stores and so much to do. They blamed it on the shopping centers springing up (not malls) but I cant go with that because we did have Many Specialty Stores. Its when they put City Hall on Pleasant Street thats what killed it.In my preteen and teenage years the Square was booming. It was so many coming and going in Malden they had to put a police officer in a high box to direct traffick at Salem,Ferry,and Main Streets. What really was odd is that businesses were 2x2 across the street from each other. They all did great. Malden Square was FUN not only for shopping but just to go their. City Hall was a curse when they put it blocking pleasant.

So the US Census lied?

Mike I never said anythig about the US Census. I'm talking about what our City officials are saying. But think of it? All the residential properties that have been built since then, and the population hasn't gone up supposedly? Please. Basic math will tell you that's impossible.

If you take into account that the population went down by almost 10% between 1960-1990, it makes sense.

That's still been another 23 years of development. Pretty sure those have recovered and then some.

Yep, according to the Census, it's recovered to the 2010 census number of 59,450.

Yup a Census that requires participation from the public, and I'm sure they all get filled out. Thats about as reliable as the current report that the Presidents approval rating is at it's highest in three years, based on a poll of 1003 people in the entire country. Please. Listen I'm not going to get into a pissing match here. I just don't think we need more condos in this City. What I would like to see is the first time home buyer program for residents of Malden reinstated, so I just found out that has been suspended, as I am in the process of trying to buy my parents house.

Contradicting with no supporting argument. Okie dokie, good luck.

By the way Greg, weren't you the one telling me to "get my head out of my ass" because I said working three jobs to pay your rent was living outside of your means? Yeah, good luck with that house purchase, hope I don't end up paying for that once it gets foreclosed.

Oh, and that first-time homebuyer's program, wouldn't that be done through a social program that I'm sure you're a huge fan of?

:)

Yeah Mike it was me that said it. Know what. I'm gonna say it again. Get your head out of your ass. You must feel real proud of yourself for wishing that a family with two kids house gets forclosed on. Your a real piece of work pal.

Hey, I wished you luck, and said that I hope that doesn't happen. How rude of you, sir.

Greg I think we need Tax revenues coming in. If it has to be Condos so be it. I myself would rather see industry comming in. That is what it was in the 60's n 70's. There were no such things as Condo's. Besides more appartments make it hard on families who bought 2 family dwellings that need that income.

Um, it's spelled 'reside'...not resdie :)

I agree, but we should ban skateboarders. They've brought nothing but trouble to this town for decades.

Too bad we can't ban trolls either, am I right?

Davis Square feeds off of Tuft students and other young professionals.

True Elio they came back real quick. Busy place now.

I love Davis Sq.....Starbucks.....Boston Burger is da' bomb! And college girls...YAY!

Thank you Steve.

Not a bad idea rick. But the City would just come up some sort of excuse as to why Malden can't do it? They would rather use a Mayors "Task Force" from Harvard students to figure it out. I wonder if their fees are coming out of the "Mayors Fund"?

done, the project is started, look for a link soon as the riding season starts, (gives me a good reason to justify a few thousand miles at least )

Good luck on your journey rick, and be safe. Just don't expect the City of Malden to give a crap unfortuantely.

Couldn't agree more, you walk downtown and feel like you just entered the twilight zone, dirty, messy store fronts, carrage pushers and cheat products being pushed by broken english speaking merchants. So my question is what is God's name is taking Malden's elite so long (25+ years) to actually stop talking about the mess and actually doing something about it?

@Elio. The problem is the same core of people / families / friends running this City for so long.

yep, that why whenever I see a name like Spadafora, Fallon, etc I write in or vote the other person,

lol, Haiti? You can't be serious.

"the same core of people / family / friends"

Oh, but they're all lifelong Malden residents, how could that be a bad thing, right?

That sounds like a good idea. While I applaud individuality, there are too many stores with curtains in the windows and hodgepodge signage.

Sorry Chris, I did not mean to insult Haiti and compare it Pleasant Street..... Lol

I agree Greg, about the 'home ownership' remark. Owning a condo is more of a convienance than anything.

There going to spend their money in town where they work. All that 350K condo is going to be is a place to lay their head.

Umm, Umm, I am trying to think LOL ...But if you have a diverse palate there are some really good ethnic food markets and places. You don't always find those in other cities and that is a good thing. But other than that, where does one go for example for nice cards and gifts. These are the types of stores the malls siphoned off. Ever go to D-Squared in Davis Square? That is a nice, funky place that could do well here. Well, maybe.

District 7 is a great spot.

we dont call those crimes, we call them Uh Ohs

You would be correct Greg. And to take that point further, there are a lot of illegal apartments where 10-15 can be living in them at one time. And if anyone tries to rebuff what I just said, give the city inspector a call, so he can set you straight. :)

As Chevy Chase once said "Look around you Helen were on the thresh hold of hell".

I am an "ahem" White collar yuppie, with life long blue collar roots in Malden. I went to malden high in the 70 and have owned my home here for well over 20 years. Eastern ave area is not exactly yuppie. But...Yuppies is exactly what we need more of, with a vibrant downtown attracting their spending dollars. I cant believe you think the current trend of increased low income and subsidized housing is the right course, that be crazy..... We have the crappy downtown because of the misguided keep Malden affordable crap and look where that got us, bodegas, dollar stores, pawn shops, nail salons, hair salons and pizza , pizza ,pizza and more pizza.

and if we get one more Dockside arrgghhhhhh

Why does buying a condo and caring about the city have to be mutually exclusive? Just because someone hasn't lived here for life doesn't mean they don't care about the city.

We need more people who did not grow up here - fresh blood, fresh perspective on things. That's what's going to bring in new business, new revenue and make the city vibrant, even if it scares off townies.

Rick. Sorry maybe a bad choice of words. But we don't need people that just want an easy place to lay their head because it's easy to get to their job. These people are not the ones that will take pride in our city and make it better. Sorry I just don't feel like they would. I'm also not saying bringing in more low income housing either. Malden has always been a blue collar middle class working city. There is nothing wrong with these types of cities. Middle calss blue collar cities don't need 350K condos. They need quality of life for a middle class blue collar city. This city seems to want to have the hi class residents as well as the lower class (no offense), and forget everyone in between? Please tell me why the City would stop the first time home buyer rogram for Malden residents?

Mike. So the hell with the residents that have called this home for years right? The new blood we need in this city is within the city goverment. And no. A person that buy's a 350K condo just because it is easy to get on the Orange Line and get to work in Boston, is not going to care about the city like a homeowner does. Sorry, I don't believe that for a minute.

Oh stop it Greg, nobody's saying that.

Nobody would buy a 350k condo here just because of the Orange Line. Think of the places opening up, or that are already built that have everything that one would need - Assembly Row, Station Landing, just to name two... why would anyone invest 350K into this city just for Orange Line access?

You understand that people who buy condos are homeowners, right?

Mike, all those place you named are not in Malden, but they are only 5 to 10 minute ride out of Malden, thats the sad part. and the good part

And I love living near the orange line, easy access to BRUINS Games

But that's what I'm saying, Ricky - they're all attached to Orange Line stops (Assembly Row's T stop is being built). If I had 350K burning a hole in my pocket, and my main criteria was proximity to the Orange Line, you'd have to believe that someone who didn't care about future investment would buy in a place that was already stocked with things to do - i.e., no room to grow in value for the future, because ostensibly maximum value is achieved.

Now take someone who actually does care and treats it like an investment - wouldn't you buy somewhere that is sort of a blank slate, where there's the opportunity for great things to come? Someone investing their money here would show me they care, even if they haven't lived here for umpteen years.

but thats kinda the problem, they are buying condos but not spending any other money in Malden. I am guilty of it myself. I like all the new stuff happening in Medford iand Someville, I just wish the idiots in Malden City hall the past 10 years had the same vision for Malden so I could spend my money in Malden, Hell I even go to Chelsea for grocery shopping, whats wrong with that picture ( but no, I dont go to the Dockside there... lol )

Ricky, I totally agree - I spend in Malden as much as possible, but quite frankly, there's only so much I can do here because there simply aren't enough shops that cater to what I need.

And hey, I haven't been to the dockside in forever, ass! ;-P

I will bet my paycheck that most of the students who live here, don't spend money in Malden. And why should they? What is there to offer them here that is upscale and trendy for them to wrap their head around? N-O-T-H-I-N-G!

Your point isn't elitist. There is some truth to it. It's almost like people want Malden
to be nice, but then they don't want some of the things that will make it desirable.
People educate themselves and move along, but what if some of those people remained.
Anyone who buys a home or a condo, will certainly make sure they keep up their property. And I know, like you, it would be nice to do a lot of things in the city. But sometimes there isn't much to do. But I will say I enjoy WindowArts Malden. I love the arts.

Oh, now...if Murdoch bought the Globe, then I'm willing to bet suicide hotlines everywhere in this state would be lit up like a pinball machine.

Evvvverything you're looking for

Come on down!

Awww Greg, does it make you mad that I bought my house here over 3 years ago, long before turning 30, even though I spent 27 years of my life living somewhere other than Malden?

well until you stop liking the dockside ..... just saying lol

HEY, I haven't been there in forever. John Brewer's is the place to be, man

Ah. Mike. No what makes me mad is your a jerk with rarely anything worth while to post, and the fact that you could give a crap less about what really happens in this City. Your age and when you bought your house is a moot point. I have done more for this City in the three years since you bought your house than you will probably do for the rest of the time you own your house here.

Oh, welcome back Greg! :)

Actually I believe I post a lot of worthwhile things, and lots of people agree, based on what I get in my e-mail.

It's difficult to believe that anyone who would want to get rid of the orange line has the city's best interest in mind. It's unfortunate that you have to resort to name-calling to get your point across, but given your mentality and world view, I am not surprised.

Mike the only job that the Orange Line is contributing to is the police department. So yeah getting rid of the Orange Line would make their jobs a lot easier.
As far as mentality goes? Really? Wheres yours I wonder. If your not from here like you said? What the heck would make you buy a house in this City if your not from here to begin with? Who needs the mentality check?

And now we've circled around to my original point.

We (my wife and I) bought our house here because we felt the city has great potential. The house is in excellent shape and was the right price for us, the neighborhood is great, and since we're both young professionals who work in the Boston area, so the close proximity to three Orange Line stations was a huge plus.

We are very interested in the future of the city not only because we want to see our property value go up, but also because we want to spend our money in this city, yet there aren't many stores in Malden that appeal to us right now. Our hope is that will change so that we can contribute more money towards the city's businesses. That hope (and our property taxes) is what we consider our investment in the city.

So, by putting up condos, you attract more people like my wife and I, young professionals with money to spend within the city. Don't worry, we don't bite.

The Orange Line is also the reason the crime rate is what it is in this City. If Malden doesn't have the types of stores you and your wife like to shop at, why again, did you buy a house here? If you don't mind me asking? What types of stores would you and your wife like to shop at?

Greg, I already answered your question as to why we bought a house here.

By the way, just so there's no mistake: I may have a "white collar" job, but I'm hardly a paper pusher, and I've worked every single day of my life since I was 15 years old, a good part of that in "blue collar" work.

Jay how do you Trump me on Malden ties?

Pool I graduated from Malden high class of 76. Been here expect for 4 years in the military so there. Father was a blue collar printer, mother a waitress, me college on the gi bill and lots of student loans. And look I still live here. But the neglect by the the past few mayors, the Fallon's, the spadaforas etc has turned this city into a low income government subsidized dump. Take look at the Granada highlands if you want. Prime example of that. Pro athletes used to live there,now all sect 8

The city needs to do something like Medford and Somerville. They both have mass transit and they are turning around their areas, we should be able to the same

Gene. I think the class of 1985 had the highest number of actual graduates?

Malden has been trying to become Cambridge for a long time now, so why not? Your right, a freakin joke.

Gene; Even at $4.50 for a Sunday paper? I wouldn't. No matter who owns it. That's just nuts for a newspaper.

Does Stewie's teddy bear really have that kind of money?

Can't argue with that

I'm glad someone else sees it. It's getting rediculous isn't it?

Well Kelly, since you aren't from Malden and don't know what it used to represent, you clearly had no right opening a store here. I hope you learned your lesson.

Yet another pointless and non insifghtful post from Mike G.

And a fantastic follow-up from Greg the Townie :)

Mike G. There's your lack of intelligence again. A Townie is from Charlestown.

Yawn.

http://bit.ly/YWijCA

Yup Yawn Mike. Like most people do regarding your posts.

Seriously, I'm only kidding about the "townie" thing; there are lots of people who have lived in Malden all their lives that I like a lot - but the thing is, they're not complete jerkwads. *shrug*

And Greg, I know you'd like to think that, but according to the e-mail I get, you're wrong. Sorry.

Jerkwads huh Mike. What exactly do you do to help this City, if anything? Aside from your meaningless points of view here? What have you done for this City lately? Bet I have you covered ten fold.

I take care of my family, make sure my bills are paid, I make sure my property is not a detriment to the neighborhood, and I pay my taxes to the city.

Seriously, I'm sure whatever it is you do for the city is nice, and it sure is swell that you're proud of it; if you're using it as some sort of measuring stick for who is a better citizen, that's your prerogative, but I'm not going to play that game.

Have a good night Mike

Jay, I'm sorry if I offended you. That was not the point I was trying to get across. I was refering to the people who just live here because they want to work in Boston and don't want to pay that cities rent, so they live her for convienence, those of who, at the end of the day don't really care about Malden.

Agree with that as far as renters but I still thinking paying 350k for a condo,that's pretty much the same price as a house and an investment that you don't want to see lose value. I don't consider myself a yuppie, although I am white collar worker. Something like what's goings down the street lookalike a good idea, maybe without as many condos though, that we have to enough of already I think.

Face it the orange line ain't going away. But look at Davis square, porter square, central square, assembley square, they don't seem to be suffering from the T,

@ Greg - I grew up in Malden, left, came back. I work and can afford to live in the city. I would prefer the amenities of living in the city, however I far prefer having ownership of my house and taking pride in my neighborhood. I chose Malden because of the convenience to the Orange Line and short trips into the Boston and the surrounding communities.

Do I spend all of my money here? Heck no. I wish the city's businesses had more to offer me. I wish finding a parking spot to go out downtown was easier. Does it prevent me from EVER spending money in the city? No.

Would I love the see a Station Landing/Assembly Row type project in Malden? YES! Give me parking! Give me restaurants! Give me retail that I can spend more than $10 in! Where will they put it? Both Station Landing and Assembly row are in areas where they are unobstructed and not challenged by the clustered architecture of previous generations. Are they going to cram it into the old Super Fitness/Mal's site? Why? So we can look at all the other dilapidated buildings around it? How about knocking down everything from City Hall up to the outlet street and building there? How's that for a start on the Malden Square Beautification project?

@Bobby-I like the points you made. The Assembly Row/Station Landing projects are accessible by the T, which for Maldonians is a good thing. So it isn't necessary to have a project like that here. But I agree too about the clustered architecture. Somehow there didn't seem to be any thought about how buildings would work with each other when there was new construction. On some streets you can see the backs of short buildings, that are in front of tall buildings. It's like a hodgepodge of
Lego buildings designed by a child. I realize you just can't knock down buildings that house businesses, but some plan should be put in place to pull it all together. Just sayin'

Malden definetely used to be a simplier place to live. But then again all cities and towns were.

Jay, you never battle me, and I get a chuckle out of your attempts to annoy Chris. C'mon now.

Agreed

LMAO Your poor wife had to deal with it.....LOL

Yep, maybe when the MBTA police start doing their job , there won't be all the crime that they get blamed for attracting, and probably rightfully so

Gotta agree, and also something like a wood oven pizza place like Krugers in Haverhill and something like highland kitchen in Somerville, all the places except All Seasons would be gone in months... Ah we can dream....

Hey hey, leave District 7 be -- I like that place.

However, agreed about the brewpub point... I know I'm not FROM here or anything, but I do like brewpubs. Olde Magoun's Saloon, for instance, is one of my favorite places to go - EXCELLENT beer selection, great food, good atmosphere... if only a place like that were open in Malden.

I agree that things will happen if there is a change in attitude.

Mike what is it with you and mediocre restaurants. Geeez....

COME ON, District 7 is great! Flatbread pizza is for wussies.

And Phiz Ed, another horrible place for food....

Never been to Fizz Ed's.... you can't fault me on that one.

They don't cook there, they just reheat.... They started ok, out but then you started seeing all the home made stuff drop of the menu until its just the standard fryolator frozen cryopak stuff... Mediocre at best, and that's being charitable, same with Phiz Ed, Obriens, Applebee's, dockside, John Brewers.... They don't cook, they just heat up pre packaged Sysco crap , the office cafeteria where I work are better than all of them. If they want to revitalize Malden square the requirements for a license should be set higher

Hmm, maybe you have a point, usually I'm 2 beers deep before eating the food. I'm sure that helps.

It's a good spot to meet the ol' man to have a couple of beers at least. I mean, what other choice do I have for that, at least?

Exactly, they are just bars, which is ok, sometimes a man has to put on stretchy pants and just go watch sports in a bar, but some real quality places for "dining" would be nice

I miss Bambinos

NO STRETCHY PANTS!!!

*settles down*

Sorry. Sweatpants in public symbolize all that's wrong with the world. I feel strongly about this.

In other news, I was in Bambino's exactly once. I didn't eat, but I did enjoy the spectacle of a young woman in a Playboy bunny tshirt making out with every guy in the joint to celebrate her engagement. Good times.

And that is why I miss bambinos, that and the table dancing after midnight, the food was really good too

Wish a halfway cafe had opened at that site instead of John Brewers, but it a good bar scene

Malden needs more table dancing.

Hopefully the Harvard students are taking notes.

Believe there is still a place in Malden on Clinton st where you can still get a lap dance.... Never understood how an adult business can operate in a residential neighborhood, but maybe Howard, chief wiggums and the ex mayor special assistant can explain that

A brewpub along the lines of Cambridge Brewing Co, The Tap or Watch City would be amazing. This is a growing market segment that Malden just does not seem attractive to. In the last 2 years three breweries have opened in the immediate area - 2 in Everett, 1 in Chelsea. Both making world class beers. Why isn't Malden appealing to businesses of that sort? Why isn't Malden making the push to attract these types of businesses? Eat local, drink local is all the rage - why not in Malden?

These new breweries don't even show up on the beer menus at Malden's "better" restaurants. Why is that? We are in the neighboring community and they don't even think to try and sell their beer in our restaurants or stores (natch - they ARE sold at the Kappy's on Route 1).

I want to give a business perspective. Despite the number of students and that beer is beer. Brewpubs is not a low capital, low expense type of business. Meanwhile brewpubs is a type of business that a lot of people like to start because... well... you get to make beer for a living.

That means the reason why there is no brewpubs is basically comparing Cambridge to Malden. A person above mention that the government needs to set the license higher. Well, I have to rebut that one cannot legislate/regulate to quality. Only having a large enough set of people willing to spend and some entrepreneurs who is willing to take the risk that there is a sufficient set of people matters in the end. The government's role help set the conditions as best as possible which depends on the situation and conditions.

Yes they can, that's what zoning is all about, you can say no McDonald here, no fast food here, you have to have so many tables etc. there are plenty of people in Malden willing to spend for high quality dining, just look at all seasons table, the are packed 7 nights a week, and hopefully OYA will have the same success, no more fast food take out in the square, no more dollar stores

Antoine, that's a good point, the question is, what's it going to take for someone to roll the dice and take a chance?

I certainly hope they don't look at comment forums like the ones here, because if I were an entrepreneur group looking to invest some money in an area, I'm not sure I'd pick this one simply on account of the onslaught of negativity towards anything "upscale" or that would be considered "yuppie".

Hopefully the locals' attitudes change as things improve, but I'm afraid we've just plain scared away good business.

@Jirkyrick

The ability to zone - ignoring the debate in philosophy of government roles - can tell someone they can't build a McDonalds, can't have this little seats or this many, "can't" many things. But can government legislate it way to a profitable brewpub? You can zone a place to be a brewpub only (ignoring the overreach in that type of thinking), but that won't mean someone will (voluntarily) build it or be profitable.

@Mike

I think any entrepreneur reading from here won't be that discouraged. There's plenty of positive comments in there too and I negative ones aren't that bad. It's the snark fights that make it feels worse.

Either way entrepreneurs - successful ones, the ones we want - have to be both realistic in assessment, optimistic in execution, and thick-skinned in the process. So comments in a website shouldn't deter. That said, the first part lies with us and the government on making that environment as best as possible, the other two depends with the entrepreneur.

Assuming, we do have the market and everything set up that an entrepreneur, there's still need to be a way to let them know we're an opportunity. In economics, that is called signalling. Hopefully things like the baseball stadium and/or whatever the Harvard people do will be that signal as well we really do have the market conditions to support those ventures.

it's a good idea paul,but one thing you are forgetting,if you put these businesses in malden,they cost higher to the customer than what they are paying now,i think melrose has a higher earning population compared to malden,that is why the places in melrose are doing good.i don't think the people for the most in malden would or could support new expensive businesses,it's just a fact.

cant afford, have you been to All Seasons Table, not exactly cheap, packed every night, the cuban restaurant is not cheap either with entrees in the 20's (which is not expensive either) malden sqaure can easily support better than dollar stores and pizza take out

I think lots of people can afford it, they just go elsewhere.

OHH! Great point Annie! I was born at Malden Hospital -- wonder if that scores me any points?

what makes it a great idea,cause they are from harvard.please! some of the dumbest idea's i have ever seen, were from harvard graduates.just look at our government today.half of these nit-wits graduated from harvard. case closed.

Why is it NOT a good idea, just because you have a problem with people from Harvard?

We should listen to the Harvard kids, but do not doubt our own intelligence. If they propose something we do not agree with, then ask them what is the reasoning behind it. Harvard should be take as a strong sign of their intelligence (I do want to mention that Boston's City Hall was done by experts and I believe same with the idea was for ours), but it does not mean it is any idea came up is beyond any of us. If they are correct, they should be able to convince us. If they are wrong, we should be able to see the reasoning behind and see the failure. This requires both sides to take each other seriously and as equals (so not dismissing each other and/or turning to snarks wars).

Sure, and I understand where you're coming from, but I think we should at least give them a chance - just because they're from Harvard doesn't mean we should blindly trust whatever they propose as if it were the greatest idea (as Antoine alluded to above), but I don't think it means we should dismiss them just because of the failings of others from Harvard.

Telli, your argument about not spending the money here, is the same thing folks who were against the outlet stores in Kittery, Maine, made. And now look at it. I think the only way anything decent would happen in Malden Sq, would have to be a massive entrepreneurial effort. A huge investment group could make it happen. As I said before, throw in a few brand franchise names, and watch it all unfold.

I'll give Antoine full credit for saying that first. I don't think that we should just blindly put 100% stock in whatever they come up with, but hell, a fresh look at this project is not a bad thing in the least. Whatever's been done over the past 10-15 years obviously hasn't worked, so let's try something new.

Wrong!!! Before i moved to malden I would visit here all the time to buy tobacco. I use to drive one hour to get it in Malden because It was cheaper to buy a carton at (not saying). So i don't know if you know but When ever i smoked outstide the shop downtown I heard things about what nonsence was going on here with the government invading personal space but I didn't listen at the time, know after i live here I can see with my own eyes.

Annie, for what it's worth, I don't think you conveyed that idea at all.

Eh, lots of insecure people reflexively flinch at the mention of Harvard. It's the mental equivalent of tapping their knee with a hammer to make them kick, and just as amusing to watch.

That's just an insulting comment. You implied anyone who express doubt as insecure while also Harvard as beyond reproach.

Now as I said earlier, we should give Harvard a chance and follow a strategy that whatever ideas they have should be backed by reasoning. The same reasoning that convinces them should convince us regardless of education.

That said, I can see plenty of reasoning of skepticism toward Harvard's involvement and it's not insecurity. I can point to history. You know Boston City Hall? Now perhaps you might rebut that you like the building, but no way one can deny it is unpopular with many. Ideally, a designer should have been to create one that have great aesthetics while pleasing to most at the same time. They didn't. And it was made by experts.

I'm not sure about this claim. But I believe Malden City Hall was done under advice of experts too. The city turned to an expert who had a similar bright idea of building in the middle of the street a giant brick building right in front of new train station. Even so, it would mean it would live plenty of skepticism to Harvard as the last time we really had experts, we got city hall.

I can point to another phase of urban planning history led by experts. The idea of knocking down neighborhoods for highways and the idea of urban renewal. Today, those approach to planning are dead. But this shows experts aren't always experts. While people like Tellitkeitis was a little harsh, there's reasonable reasons behind

Antoine, I don't think that's what she said.

No, I said that insecure people get het up about Harvard. Some of them reflexively worship it, and some of them reflexively loathe it. Both reflexes are equally stupid.

It's "toe."